April 3, 2024 • 29 mins
We’re in the era of overthinking, according to linguist and author Amanda Montell. She stops by The Bright Side to talk about her new book “The Age of Magical Overthinking,” and how our brains process the information overload we’re bombarded with on a daily basis. Plus, Reese’s Book Club pick for April is “The Most Fun We Ever Had” by Claire Lombardo. Claire will join us for a conversation at the end of the month — and she’ll be taking your questions! Send us a voice message at hello@thebrightsidepodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Today on the bright side, we're learning about magical overthinking
with author, linguist and podcast host Amanda Montel.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
And afterwards, Amanda sticks around to quiz us on our
Internet lingo in a very choogy aka cringey millennial game
that we're calling decoded no googling aloud. It's Wednesday, April third.
I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And I'm simone Voice, and this is the bright side
from Hello Sunshine. So, Danielle, I was doom scrolling, but
I found some good news that really put a smile
on my face.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Oh wow, tell me okay, So here it is.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
A recent poll found that eight out of ten Americans
are regularly paying it forward.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
That's a lot of Americans paying it forward.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
It's beautiful, right.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So they're helping their neighbors carry groceries or shovel their driveways,
give generous tips, treating loved ones to a little something
special for no reason at all. This to me.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
And the poll was done by this banking app Chime,
and they found, on average that people do five generous
acts every week, which adds up to two hundred and
sixty acts of kindness each year, which is pretty remarkable.
It's a lot of people, it's a lot of acts
of kindness. I find them contagious. As a Midwest girl,
acts of kindness are in my DNA. One of the
(01:20):
things I learned from Jesse Itzler, who is Sarah Blakeley's husband,
the founder of Spanks.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I follow him too. I love I love him. I
love his energy, so positive, he.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Is so positive and he has really tactical advice.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And he taught me this.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Once a week, when somebody I love or like comes
into my mind, I'll either write an email or a
handwritten note thanking them for something that they have done,
whether they like poured into me, gave me a tip
at work, just like did something that felt really good.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And I've found that.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
It, like a really strengthens my connections. But I think
it's contagious for them too, like they pass it on
and it's just one a week.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Okay, So maybe I am doing little acts of kindness
because sometimes I'll just send and a friend a text
and just say, hey, I'm thinking of you. I know
we're both really busy right now and we can't get together,
but I'm thinking of you, and here's why I love you.
Here's how you inspire me. Does that count asn't it?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
My god?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
When I have a girlfriend that sends me a message,
especially in the morning that I wake up to that's
like You're in my prayers or I'm thinking about you,
or like go have a great day. I actually think
it shifts my energy.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
We often don't realize the power that we have with
those little small acts of kindness, those little microjoys.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yes I think so.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
And talking about it from like a zoomed out perspective
can sometimes feel earnest or corny, but if you really
drill into it, it's powerful.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, totally. Okay, bright Side Bessie is up next. We
have something special to share with you. Reese has just
announced her book club pick for April. Danielle, can I
please get a drum roll?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Congratulations are in order for Laire Lombardo, her novel The
Most Fun We Ever Had is this month's featured book.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Is this the most fun We're ever gonna have reading
a book? I think maybe I'm really excited about this.
The Most Fun We Ever Had came out in twenty
nineteen and has gotten absolutely rave reviews. It was a
new York Times bestseller and it's set in my hometown
of Chicago. It follows a married couple and their four
daughters over a period of forty years, and I cannot
(03:29):
wait to read this. We're actually gonna have Claire on
the show later this month to talk about the book.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
She'll answer our questions and hopefully some of yours too,
So send them over to us at Hello at the
Brightside podcast dot com.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Okay, see money, Simone, I have a personal question for you,
and you can't not answer because we're friends. Now we
are close enough for me to ask you this.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
What type of.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Underwear are you wearing right here, right now, in this chair.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I'm actually wearing granny panties. Girl, I ain't even gonna lie.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
No, you're not.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I am I'm wearing, but I'm wearing seamless granny panties.
I feel like that's, you know, a step up from
the old school granny panties that we know.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I'm here to.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Report the news everybody. Granny panties are having a moment.
They're hot, they're in Celebs are wearing their granny panties
with pride. I'm talking Bellahadide, Kendall, and Kylie Jenner. They've
all been spotted rocking granny panties while out and about.
They're kind of rocking them, like a panty with no
pants and a jacket and a biker shirt.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I think we need to clarify that is that's a vibe. Okay, yes,
the whole no pants trend. I am all about it.
I actually I really want to try it. Technically, I've
already tried it.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
You got a lot of legs, you could do it well.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So okay, here's the thing. I did actually try it.
I ordered all this clothing off of Revolve, and I
tried it on. I got like the the granny panty briefs,
I got the tights. I got an oversized blazer.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
I tried it on.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I looked in the mirror and I was like, girl,
you cannot go out like the Like my legs looked
like sausages, like trying to like squeeze into these granny
panties and tights.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
It was not cute.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Here's the thing, Okay, here's the thing. For anybody who
hasn't seen this yet, think of like a gen.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Z pin up girl. That's what it's giving.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Now we've been told our whole lives to put our
granny panties in the back of the drawer. Now everybody's
telling us to wear them out in public.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I am not with this.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It's kind of it's briefs. I think you can also
think of it as hot shorts. They're also they've also
been hot shorts.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Hot pants.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I wear hot pants. I wear hot shorts to hot yoga.
These are not those. These are bloomers like my grandmother
wore these under her clothing in the nineteen thirties and forties.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yes, fashion is cyclical, Danielle. And here's what I like
about this this movement though, Okay, we are reprioritizing the
comfort and satisfaction of the gender who is actually wearing
the garment because we're coming out of the victorious Secret era,
which was all about catering to the male gaze really tight, uncomfortable,
(06:06):
lacy pieces. I mean, some of it was cute and
sexy and it made us feel good. But I think
that's why we're seeing consumers embrace brands like Savage fenty
and skims, because they're prioritizing body positivity and they want
women to feel good in what they're wearing.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I looked up what obgyns say about this, okay, and
they actually say that granny panties are good for you.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
This is the quote.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
They provide full coverage underwear and it provides more protection
to a woman's private area.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So listen to.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Each their own.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
If you want to wrack the granny panty, you go
for it, because underwear is like beneath your clothest's for you.
In my opinion, it's like what makes you feel good.
But I have to tell you this trend is.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Not for me. I am a thong girl.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I will never be caught dead in granny panties, and
I'm definitely not wearing them out in public.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I'm mostly a thong girl too, But I gotta tell
you these seamless granny panties I'm wearing right now, I
feel safe, feel held.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I feel how husband feel about them.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I don't care what he thinks. This is about me.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Okay, danielle On, behalf of me and my granny pennies.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Thank you for this spirited debate.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
You know say that with your full chest. Simone On,
behalf of me and my granny pats. Goodbye.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
After the break, we sit down with author and linguist
Amanda Montel to talk about magical overthinking, what is and
how can we all overcome our racing minds?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
You don't want to miss this stick around.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Do you ever feel so overwhelmed by information overload that
you don't know what to think? Or maybe even find
yourself believing something you know doesn't make sense just because
it feels right. Then you, my friend, might be magically
overthinking it, According to Today.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Amanda Montel is a linguist and writer and host of
the Sounds Like a Cult podcast. Her new book, The
Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, is out
next week April ninth, and it tackles the strange ways
our minds behave in the face of way too much information.
She's brilliant and she happens to be my friend, Amanda.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Thanks for hanging out with us.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Oh stop it, it's my favorite place to be Amanda, welcome.
Thank you so much. It's like such a pleasure. You
both look gorgeous as see you.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
We are so thrilled to have you here. On the
bright side, your new book is called The Age of
Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality. So what do you
mean by the age of magical overthinking.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
I've been defining it as this time and history when
we're living in the information age, and yet so many
of us feel like the world is only making less
and less sense. There seems to be this clash between
our innate mysticism that so many of us engage in
and it's natural to do so, and this time when
there's an excess of information. We're exposed to more info
(09:10):
every single day and more social identities every single day
than our ancestors would have been exposed to in a lifetime.
And so there seems to be this pretty explosive collision
between the ways that our minds naturally process the world
and the world that we've created. That's what I'm calling
the age of magical overthinking.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Can you also clarify the difference between magical thinking and
magical overthinking totally?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Well.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Magical thinking is an age old human quirk. It describes
our propensity to believe that our thoughts and our feelings
can affect external events, and this shows up in ideas
like that of manifestation. You know, I'm gonna vision board
my way to wealth and success, And a little bit
of magical thinking is actually helpful. It's a coping mechanism.
(09:54):
It helps us feel like we're in control and reclaiming
some agency during times of personal suffering or culture wide turbulence.
Magical overthinking, though, feels like a product of the current age,
when we are assigned to contend with an onslaught of
information every single day. It's too much for us to process,
and at the very same time, there's this almost capitalistic,
(10:16):
perfectionistic pressure to know everything under the sun. It's just
not natural.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So magical overthinking is when you really believe something totally
irrational due to the information overload that's inescapable in today's
day and age. For instance, when you decide you absolutely
have to finish watching a TV show you don't even
like because you're already on season four. This extends to
weightier issues as well, like believing you can cure cancer
(10:43):
with positive vibes alone. There's another name for this too,
and it's cognitive bias. Can you explain what cognitive bias is?
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Yeah, So, the term cognitive bias describes this sort of
deep rooted mental magic trick that we play on ourselves.
It's this kind of psychological shortcut that we take to
make sense of the world, and our ancestors used to
take these shortcuts in a way that was net positive.
But now we're applying these cognitive biases unconsciously to problems
(11:13):
that are so much more abstract and complex than the
problems that we had to deal with when they first developed,
and so that's causing us a great deal of existential pain.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Your book actually covers eleven different cognitive biases, including the
sunk cost fallacy.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
What is that? And how did you come across it?
Speaker 5 (11:33):
So I really started to look more closely into cognitive
biases while doing the research for my last book, Cultish,
and as I was researching the mechanics of cult influence,
I kept coming across this really fascinating psychology and behavioral
economics research that made mention of some of these more
famous biases that might ring a bell, like confirmation bias,
sunk cost fallacy, and how they were informing cult behavior.
(11:56):
But I couldn't help but notice that they also could
explain so many of the decisions that I had made
throughout my life that I could never justify that literally
never made sense to me, but that also applied to
decisions that other people do that I'm like eh, that
doesn't check out. The math is not mathing, so to speak.
These cognitive biases were really illuminating, and one of the
ones that struck me first was the sunk cost fallacy,
(12:18):
which is this propensity to believe that resources already spent
on an endeavor like money, time, but also emotional resources
like hope, justify spending even more so you mentioned it earlier,
but a low stakes example would be, oh my god,
I'm already one hundred episodes into this show that I
don't even like anymore, but I've gotten this far in.
I'm invested. I can't quit now. And on a higher
(12:39):
stakes level, that can cause you to stay in a
cult like toxic one on one relationship for years past
what makes sense to anyone else or yourself, because you
figure I made a bet on myself. My bet was
that this relationship was going to make me happy, and
human beings are naturally so averse to loss, like to
(13:00):
admit that this endeavor that we sunk so much time
and effort into is actually turning out not to pan out.
So we do all this mental gymnastics to defend that choice,
to justify it, and it makes us feel like we're
more predictable to ourselves and thus more attractive to other
people because we don't come across as a loose cannon.
So this fallacy can really explain why I myself decided
(13:24):
to spend seven years in what I consider like a
very very toxic relationship that wasn't serving me because I
was falling susceptible to this fallacy that just wasn't doing
anything good for me in the moment.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
In the sunk costs fallacy chapter, you write something that
I love. You say, quote, it's okay to forgive yourself
and to build a life that's so full and so
yours that you never really sunk any.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Costs at all. Yeah, why did you write that line?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Because I know you're writing from a personal place there
I can feel it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I wrote that.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Because there is so much pressure, especially in a society
that is influenced by rom comms, and that really applies
a lot of shame to people who've broken up with
their long term partners. You know, when a celebrity couple
breaks up, we really punish them. We perceive them as
you know, chaotic or not able to handle their you
know what, And that can cause us to feel like
(14:16):
we need to stick around with people who aren't doing
the most for us. And so what I hope to
communicate in this chapter is that there is a behavioral economics,
empirical reason why we sometimes stay in relationships that don't
make sense to anyone else or ourselves, and that at
the same time, it's not necessarily an excuse this explanation.
(14:38):
It can be really informative and illuminating to help you
make better decisions moving forward, but that ultimately you know,
it's not there to support like everything happens for a
reason type rhetoric, because I don't know if I fully
believe that, but I do think it's important to recognize
that our lives are not necessarily stories with plot points,
(14:59):
and you know, so.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Characters whose traits track like I love that you're saying that,
I hate that phrase. Do it for the plot?
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, do it for the plot because hate that listen.
I naturally do things for the plot. I conceive of
my life as this hero's journey, and so when some
random tragedy comes along, I either ignore it or I
do this mental contortionism to like shoehorn it into the
plot so that it makes sense. But life is not
like that. Sometimes life is chaotic. Sometimes things happen for
(15:28):
no reason, and that's okay, and it doesn't make it
less valid. It doesn't make your life less interesting or
less important. And so I wrote this chapter to help
me process some of those experiences and hopefully in turn,
help others too.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
There's another chapter called the Shit Talking Hypothesis. I love
that chapter title. And in this chapter you introduce the
zero sum bias. What is it and how do we
overcome it?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Listen?
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Zero some bias is most often discussed in the context
of economics, but I thought it would be more full
and relatable to discuss it in the context of social comparison.
So it describes this very deep rooted instinct to think
that another person's gain directly means your loss. So when
we see another person who is successful, beautiful, wealthy, cool,
(16:16):
we think that is a direct threat to our wealth, success, beauty,
and coolness, even though that's not true. There is not
a limited quantity of light in the universe. Another person's
light doesn't directly dim yours. But this stems from such
a deep rooted inclination that goes back to a time
in human history when resources within a small community may
(16:38):
very well have been limited. You know, you were competing
with people who were in your age group for mates, food,
et cetera. Things really were zero sum. That's not the
case anymore, and yet we can't shake this ingrained fallacy.
Becoming aware of it has become really helpful to me,
especially as a woman. We're living in a society that
really does set up a zero sum game for women,
in particular where we're led to believe that there is
(17:01):
only a small, select few seats in the c suite
or on the Supreme Court for women, and thus there
is only a limited number of women who can be
perceived as successful and wealthy or whatever you value. And
there's this amazing quote that Anne Friedman and May Not
Too So said in a viral cut piece from twenty thirteen,
(17:24):
where they coin this phrase shine theory, which describes this
idea that two women can actually combine their light everybody
burns brighter. And I find that really inspiring, especially in
a culture where studies find that women are prone to
make more upward comparisons and downward identifications.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I wish I had interacted with you in my early
twenties when I was such a hustler and so insecure
and competitive because all this is just it's making so
much sense.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, you know, and as somebody who loves stats and research,
it's actually proven.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
You can touch it, feel it, listen. I find that
stats and impureracle studies are so validating, especially when they
support a frustration that I've always had but could never
put a number or a graph.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Two.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
The other interesting thing is that I find it really
ironic that the women who appear to threaten us the
worst are the ones we have most in common with, aka,
the ones we could become best friends with.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Hello.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, there's somebody I forgot who told me this years ago,
but they said, if somebody, especially another woman, triggers something
in you, you have to look inward. It's about you,
it's not about them, And it's such a good rule
of thumb.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
I actually feel like, if a woman is triggering you
and inspiring you to feel competitive and to allow them
to live rent free in your head instead of like
beating yourself up, befriend her.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Befriend her.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
See this aligns with a reframe that I have used
in the past, like, what if, ever I'm feeling like
threatened or jealous or competitive with someone, I just say
she inspires me, I turn it around into inspiration, like
I want to learn from her or I want to
It's a shine theory, you know, I want to absorb
that magnetism.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
There are so many great stories and observations in this book,
But if you had to leave our listeners with one
takeaway about how they can bring more joy into their lives,
let me repeat that more joy. I feel like that's
what we need right now.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
What would that be?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
One of my favorite solutions to magical overthinking has to
do with the concept of AWE. There's this amazing social
scientist named doctor Kelner who wrote a whole book about
AWE and I love this concept because it describes the
sort of humbling wonder that you experience when you're perceiving
a phenomenon that you can't quite understand. So if you're
in the midst of nature or stunning live music, or
(19:41):
engaging in a spiritual ritual, it's helpful because it takes
you outside of yourself. It removes some of that self
focus that can be so destructive existentially. And so I
find that whenever I'm spiraling overthinking, I try to get
outside of myself by immersing myself in an experience that
inspires all.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Amanda, thank you so much for sharing all of your
insights with us. After the break, Amanda's going to draw
on her background as a linguist and quiz us on
our knowledge of viral slaying in a jugee game that
we're calling Decoded.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And if you don't know what chugi means, you're about
to find out. And we're back with writer, linguist and
podcast host Amanda Montel and she's here to play a
round of Decoded, our rapid fire game of Internet speak.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Welcome back, Amanda, Thank you so much for having me. Okay,
bright side besties. Here's how the game works. Amanda has
a list of words that Simone and I have not seen.
These are terms that some of us and hopefully Simone
and I have come across on the Internet already, and
we have to guess exactly what they mean. Simone, Amanda,
(20:53):
I don't know if I'm ready for this.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Are we Let's go?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Let's I want to be embarrassed?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Let's okay?
Speaker 5 (20:58):
Yeah, you know, language is changing fast than ever. The
Internet obviously is responsible for that. So if you don't
know any of these terms, don't feel ashamed. Things are
moving quickly. I also want to make the disclaimer that
so much terminology that we perceive as Internet slang actually
does have its roots in marginalized communities, communities that have
always used language as a form of power in a
(21:20):
society that doesn't always give them the most accessible forms
of power. So I want to give credit where credit
is due. But the first term on this list, it's
a softball. What does chewgee mean?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I know this one.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Okay. It's first of all, I'm choogy, you're choogee. We're millennials.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
First of all, this game is cheogy, right, game is choogo?
This game is so choogy.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yes, uh, millennial.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
It's giving Lulu lemon, which I love.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
It's giving it's giving tryhard millennial.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
This is one of those terms where it's much easier
to say what it looks like than what it is.
So it did have this kind of flash in the
pan moment on TikTok in twenty twenty one, but it
didn't take off by any means. It did not become
viral until for some reason The New York Times lashed
onto it and covered it in a piece, and then
millennials started to kind of panic a little bit, actually
(22:11):
a lot of bit on mass because everybody was engaging
in this discourse of like, oh my god, am I
chugy am I chewgi.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
It wasn't this like the middle and side parts and
the straight skinny leg jeens.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Absolutely yes, it's being judged by the younger generation.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
That's what chew gin is.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
Exactly, which is a tale as old as time.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
You know.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
Really, it wasn't that gen Z was overly roasting us,
but we were starting to get the sense for the
first time that we were getting maybe a little older.
I mean, the youth has always driven linguistic change, and
it was a sign that we millennials were not the
drivers of slaying anymore, and that really disturbed us. So
it was really millennial's anxiety about the word shoogie that
(22:52):
caused it to blow up, not the word shogie itself.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
The flip side of chowgi is whenever you get a
compliment from a gaggle of gen z ers, just feels like,
oh my god.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Oh you have no idea. I went and spoke in
a high school the other week, and one of the
students told me, I ate.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
I was like no crumbs.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
You actually do you eat anything?
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Thank you so much. I was like, m ah um,
gonna google that.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
The next word on this list is one of my favorites.
The word is delulu.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Oh yeah, tots. It's short for delusional.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, but it has like a positive spin like be
delulu enough to believe all your dreams are gonna come true,
Be delulu enough that you can meet the person of
your dreams.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
Yes, no, it is giving manifestation. I love that it
is not only positive but cutesy, and we have the
suffix delulu to thank for that not only isn't an abbreviation,
but it incorporates kind of baby babbling, googo gaga delulu,
and I love all the sort of like rhyming spinoffs
that it's inspired, like de Lulu is the only solu
(24:02):
to make your dreams come true?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Lulu I really appreciated a podcast episode back. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
It also feels like it's in alignment with the ascendancy
of girlhood as an idea.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Like fully fully Yeah. It's like we're cutesifying concepts that
might not all on their own be cute, but they
are indeed coping mechanisms in our world right now, okay,
speaking of girlhood. Actually, the next term is coquette.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Isn't this an old term. This is a new term.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
This is an old term that has experienced new life.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I haven't heard this I except for in the old way.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Coquettish is a term that I feel like I can
grasp more easily, which to me evokes French lead of
a rom com.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Yeah, like a flirt, a flirt. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
So coquette is now a TikTok, aesthetic that has expanded
into fashion spaces, et cetera. TikTok is obviously a platform
where micro trends thrive and spread, like tomato girl summer
or coastal grandma or coquette. We don't have these for
men on TikTok. If we do, no one cares.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I think that's okay. I love that we have our
own things.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Well, femaleness is always under a microscope, for better and
for worse. But coquette is another one of these terms
that's easier to depict than define. So think an aesthetic
involving bows, ribbons, pastel, pinks, knee socks, Lana del Rey. Yeah,
people Okay, some people have a very pukey reaction to this.
(25:33):
To me, I'm sorry if anybody listening is coquettish.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Oh so, I love coquettish thing. It's kind of coy, girly,
extremely feminine.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Yes, it's hype of feminine, and I think it does
also reflect this discourse surrounding girlhood alongside the eras tour
and Barbie. You know this, there's a sort of elevating
of girlhood, which I love. Okay, And my very last
term for you is beije flag. Wait?
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Whoa beige flag? Okay?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Beige flag is in between a red flag and a
green flag.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
Yeah. Yeah, As you can probably tell, it refers to
one of these signals in a relationship, like a red flag,
which is a warning sign do not proceed. Green flag
is like, yeah, that's a good person, feel free to
date them. A beige flag is a sign that maybe
a person is not good, not bad, but perplexing in
an oddly mundane way.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
So a beige flag is goldilocks.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
Yeah maybe again, just right, it's hard to get well
or maybe just wrong. I will quote an article by
Mia Mercato from The Cut. Mia says it could be
the particular way they do their laundry, or their deep
fear of astronauts. This tidbit of information is neither a
deal breaker nor a deal maker, neither alarming nor alluring.
(26:47):
It simply is, hmm, beige flag.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
So one time I did an exercise with an executive
coach and she was like, one through ten, number these
things in your life, and it's relationships, home, spirituality, community, service,
et cetera. But you cannot use a seven because everybody
uses that in between number. You got to give something, commit, commit,
and I feel like a beige flag is just so noncommittal.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
No, No, life is all about the in between. It's
all about the gray area nuance.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yes, agreed, but I beige does not signify nuance.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
To me, it signifies mundane.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
It's oddly hard to define because I've seen some beige
flags symbolize boring, and I've seen some beige flags resemble
like unidentifiably quirky. But we like quirky here, Yeah, yeah,
I do. I do agree, though we like to live
in the nuances in the beij.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Is it chooge to say that we kind of killed
this game, we ate we hate Is it chug to
say that we ate at this game.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
I mean, god, you know they do say as soon
as the Olds embrace the term, it's.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
It's done, it's dead.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I know. Sadly, Amanda, thank you so much. This has
been so fun and also so illuminating a.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Blast for me.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes. Amanda Montelle is a writer, linguist, and host of
the podcast Sounds Like a Cult. She's also the author
of words Lud, a feminist guide to taking back the
English Language, and Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism. Her new book,
The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on modern irrationality, is
out April ninth.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Oh that was so fun.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I definitely learned a thing or two about why we
do the things that we do.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yes, and when she talks about shine theory, I mean
that just aligns with our show and our mission so much.
We're really here to lift each other up and inspire
one another always.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And I think the one parting affirmation we want to
leave you with today is actually something Amanda said, and
that is two women fusing their light makes us all shine.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Writer, hmmm, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
When we shine a light on other people's stories and
gifts is such a gift for us too.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
We want to hear from you. Do you have a
shine theory story.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Maybe it's a moment when you befriended someone who initially
intimidated you and now you're besties, or when someone at
work stepped up and really had your back. Send us
a note or a voice memo at Hello at the
bright sidepodcast dot com.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
We really love a voice note here. We listen to
them all.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Tomorrow we're talking to singer songwriter Raina Roberts about Beyonce's
new album, Cowboy Carter, which she's featured in, and the
album's impact on country music and beyond. All right, that's
it for today's show. We'll be back tomorrow with your
daily dose of sunshine. So listen and subscribe on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
(29:42):
You can find me Simone Voice at Simone Voice.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
And I'm Danielle Robe at Danielle robe ro Bay.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Keep looking on the bright side.
Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Today on the bright side, we're learning about magical overthinking
with author, linguist and podcast host Amanda Montel.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
And afterwards, Amanda sticks around to quiz us on our
Internet lingo in a very choogy aka cringey millennial game
that we're calling decoded no googling aloud. It's Wednesday, April third.
I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And I'm simone Voice, and this is the bright side
from Hello Sunshine. So, Danielle, I was doom scrolling, but
I found some good news that really put a smile
on my face.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Oh wow, tell me okay, So here it is.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
A recent poll found that eight out of ten Americans
are regularly paying it forward.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
That's a lot of Americans paying it forward.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
It's beautiful, right.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So they're helping their neighbors carry groceries or shovel their driveways,
give generous tips, treating loved ones to a little something
special for no reason at all. This to me.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
And the poll was done by this banking app Chime,
and they found, on average that people do five generous
acts every week, which adds up to two hundred and
sixty acts of kindness each year, which is pretty remarkable.
It's a lot of people, it's a lot of acts
of kindness. I find them contagious. As a Midwest girl,
acts of kindness are in my DNA. One of the
(01:20):
things I learned from Jesse Itzler, who is Sarah Blakeley's husband,
the founder of Spanks.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I follow him too. I love I love him. I
love his energy, so positive, he.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Is so positive and he has really tactical advice.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And he taught me this.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Once a week, when somebody I love or like comes
into my mind, I'll either write an email or a
handwritten note thanking them for something that they have done,
whether they like poured into me, gave me a tip
at work, just like did something that felt really good.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And I've found that.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
It, like a really strengthens my connections. But I think
it's contagious for them too, like they pass it on
and it's just one a week.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Okay, So maybe I am doing little acts of kindness
because sometimes I'll just send and a friend a text
and just say, hey, I'm thinking of you. I know
we're both really busy right now and we can't get together,
but I'm thinking of you, and here's why I love you.
Here's how you inspire me. Does that count asn't it?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
My god?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
When I have a girlfriend that sends me a message,
especially in the morning that I wake up to that's
like You're in my prayers or I'm thinking about you,
or like go have a great day. I actually think
it shifts my energy.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
We often don't realize the power that we have with
those little small acts of kindness, those little microjoys.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yes I think so.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
And talking about it from like a zoomed out perspective
can sometimes feel earnest or corny, but if you really
drill into it, it's powerful.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, totally. Okay, bright Side Bessie is up next. We
have something special to share with you. Reese has just
announced her book club pick for April. Danielle, can I
please get a drum roll?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Congratulations are in order for Laire Lombardo, her novel The
Most Fun We Ever Had is this month's featured book.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Is this the most fun We're ever gonna have reading
a book? I think maybe I'm really excited about this.
The Most Fun We Ever Had came out in twenty
nineteen and has gotten absolutely rave reviews. It was a
new York Times bestseller and it's set in my hometown
of Chicago. It follows a married couple and their four
daughters over a period of forty years, and I cannot
(03:29):
wait to read this. We're actually gonna have Claire on
the show later this month to talk about the book.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
She'll answer our questions and hopefully some of yours too,
So send them over to us at Hello at the
Brightside podcast dot com.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Okay, see money, Simone, I have a personal question for you,
and you can't not answer because we're friends. Now we
are close enough for me to ask you this.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
What type of.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Underwear are you wearing right here, right now, in this chair.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I'm actually wearing granny panties. Girl, I ain't even gonna lie.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
No, you're not.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I am I'm wearing, but I'm wearing seamless granny panties.
I feel like that's, you know, a step up from
the old school granny panties that we know.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I'm here to.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Report the news everybody. Granny panties are having a moment.
They're hot, they're in Celebs are wearing their granny panties
with pride. I'm talking Bellahadide, Kendall, and Kylie Jenner. They've
all been spotted rocking granny panties while out and about.
They're kind of rocking them, like a panty with no
pants and a jacket and a biker shirt.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I think we need to clarify that is that's a vibe. Okay, yes,
the whole no pants trend. I am all about it.
I actually I really want to try it. Technically, I've
already tried it.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
You got a lot of legs, you could do it well.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So okay, here's the thing. I did actually try it.
I ordered all this clothing off of Revolve, and I
tried it on. I got like the the granny panty briefs,
I got the tights. I got an oversized blazer.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
I tried it on.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I looked in the mirror and I was like, girl,
you cannot go out like the Like my legs looked
like sausages, like trying to like squeeze into these granny
panties and tights.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
It was not cute.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Here's the thing, Okay, here's the thing. For anybody who
hasn't seen this yet, think of like a gen.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Z pin up girl. That's what it's giving.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Now we've been told our whole lives to put our
granny panties in the back of the drawer. Now everybody's
telling us to wear them out in public.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I am not with this.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It's kind of it's briefs. I think you can also
think of it as hot shorts. They're also they've also
been hot shorts.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Hot pants.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I wear hot pants. I wear hot shorts to hot yoga.
These are not those. These are bloomers like my grandmother
wore these under her clothing in the nineteen thirties and forties.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yes, fashion is cyclical, Danielle. And here's what I like
about this this movement though, Okay, we are reprioritizing the
comfort and satisfaction of the gender who is actually wearing
the garment because we're coming out of the victorious Secret era,
which was all about catering to the male gaze really tight, uncomfortable,
(06:06):
lacy pieces. I mean, some of it was cute and
sexy and it made us feel good. But I think
that's why we're seeing consumers embrace brands like Savage fenty
and skims, because they're prioritizing body positivity and they want
women to feel good in what they're wearing.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I looked up what obgyns say about this, okay, and
they actually say that granny panties are good for you.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
This is the quote.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
They provide full coverage underwear and it provides more protection
to a woman's private area.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So listen to.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Each their own.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
If you want to wrack the granny panty, you go
for it, because underwear is like beneath your clothest's for you.
In my opinion, it's like what makes you feel good.
But I have to tell you this trend is.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Not for me. I am a thong girl.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I will never be caught dead in granny panties, and
I'm definitely not wearing them out in public.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I'm mostly a thong girl too, But I gotta tell
you these seamless granny panties I'm wearing right now, I
feel safe, feel held.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I feel how husband feel about them.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I don't care what he thinks. This is about me.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Okay, danielle On, behalf of me and my granny pennies.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Thank you for this spirited debate.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
You know say that with your full chest. Simone On,
behalf of me and my granny pats. Goodbye.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
After the break, we sit down with author and linguist
Amanda Montel to talk about magical overthinking, what is and
how can we all overcome our racing minds?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
You don't want to miss this stick around.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Do you ever feel so overwhelmed by information overload that
you don't know what to think? Or maybe even find
yourself believing something you know doesn't make sense just because
it feels right. Then you, my friend, might be magically
overthinking it, According to Today.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Amanda Montel is a linguist and writer and host of
the Sounds Like a Cult podcast. Her new book, The
Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, is out
next week April ninth, and it tackles the strange ways
our minds behave in the face of way too much information.
She's brilliant and she happens to be my friend, Amanda.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Thanks for hanging out with us.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Oh stop it, it's my favorite place to be Amanda, welcome.
Thank you so much. It's like such a pleasure. You
both look gorgeous as see you.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
We are so thrilled to have you here. On the
bright side, your new book is called The Age of
Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality. So what do you
mean by the age of magical overthinking.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
I've been defining it as this time and history when
we're living in the information age, and yet so many
of us feel like the world is only making less
and less sense. There seems to be this clash between
our innate mysticism that so many of us engage in
and it's natural to do so, and this time when
there's an excess of information. We're exposed to more info
(09:10):
every single day and more social identities every single day
than our ancestors would have been exposed to in a lifetime.
And so there seems to be this pretty explosive collision
between the ways that our minds naturally process the world
and the world that we've created. That's what I'm calling
the age of magical overthinking.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Can you also clarify the difference between magical thinking and
magical overthinking totally?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Well.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Magical thinking is an age old human quirk. It describes
our propensity to believe that our thoughts and our feelings
can affect external events, and this shows up in ideas
like that of manifestation. You know, I'm gonna vision board
my way to wealth and success, And a little bit
of magical thinking is actually helpful. It's a coping mechanism.
(09:54):
It helps us feel like we're in control and reclaiming
some agency during times of personal suffering or culture wide turbulence.
Magical overthinking, though, feels like a product of the current age,
when we are assigned to contend with an onslaught of
information every single day. It's too much for us to process,
and at the very same time, there's this almost capitalistic,
(10:16):
perfectionistic pressure to know everything under the sun. It's just
not natural.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So magical overthinking is when you really believe something totally
irrational due to the information overload that's inescapable in today's
day and age. For instance, when you decide you absolutely
have to finish watching a TV show you don't even
like because you're already on season four. This extends to
weightier issues as well, like believing you can cure cancer
(10:43):
with positive vibes alone. There's another name for this too,
and it's cognitive bias. Can you explain what cognitive bias is?
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Yeah, So, the term cognitive bias describes this sort of
deep rooted mental magic trick that we play on ourselves.
It's this kind of psychological shortcut that we take to
make sense of the world, and our ancestors used to
take these shortcuts in a way that was net positive.
But now we're applying these cognitive biases unconsciously to problems
(11:13):
that are so much more abstract and complex than the
problems that we had to deal with when they first developed,
and so that's causing us a great deal of existential pain.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Your book actually covers eleven different cognitive biases, including the
sunk cost fallacy.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
What is that? And how did you come across it?
Speaker 5 (11:33):
So I really started to look more closely into cognitive
biases while doing the research for my last book, Cultish,
and as I was researching the mechanics of cult influence,
I kept coming across this really fascinating psychology and behavioral
economics research that made mention of some of these more
famous biases that might ring a bell, like confirmation bias,
sunk cost fallacy, and how they were informing cult behavior.
(11:56):
But I couldn't help but notice that they also could
explain so many of the decisions that I had made
throughout my life that I could never justify that literally
never made sense to me, but that also applied to
decisions that other people do that I'm like eh, that
doesn't check out. The math is not mathing, so to speak.
These cognitive biases were really illuminating, and one of the
ones that struck me first was the sunk cost fallacy,
(12:18):
which is this propensity to believe that resources already spent
on an endeavor like money, time, but also emotional resources
like hope, justify spending even more so you mentioned it earlier,
but a low stakes example would be, oh my god,
I'm already one hundred episodes into this show that I
don't even like anymore, but I've gotten this far in.
I'm invested. I can't quit now. And on a higher
(12:39):
stakes level, that can cause you to stay in a
cult like toxic one on one relationship for years past
what makes sense to anyone else or yourself, because you
figure I made a bet on myself. My bet was
that this relationship was going to make me happy, and
human beings are naturally so averse to loss, like to
(13:00):
admit that this endeavor that we sunk so much time
and effort into is actually turning out not to pan out.
So we do all this mental gymnastics to defend that choice,
to justify it, and it makes us feel like we're
more predictable to ourselves and thus more attractive to other
people because we don't come across as a loose cannon.
So this fallacy can really explain why I myself decided
(13:24):
to spend seven years in what I consider like a
very very toxic relationship that wasn't serving me because I
was falling susceptible to this fallacy that just wasn't doing
anything good for me in the moment.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
In the sunk costs fallacy chapter, you write something that
I love. You say, quote, it's okay to forgive yourself
and to build a life that's so full and so
yours that you never really sunk any.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Costs at all. Yeah, why did you write that line?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Because I know you're writing from a personal place there
I can feel it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I wrote that.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Because there is so much pressure, especially in a society
that is influenced by rom comms, and that really applies
a lot of shame to people who've broken up with
their long term partners. You know, when a celebrity couple
breaks up, we really punish them. We perceive them as
you know, chaotic or not able to handle their you
know what, And that can cause us to feel like
(14:16):
we need to stick around with people who aren't doing
the most for us. And so what I hope to
communicate in this chapter is that there is a behavioral economics,
empirical reason why we sometimes stay in relationships that don't
make sense to anyone else or ourselves, and that at
the same time, it's not necessarily an excuse this explanation.
(14:38):
It can be really informative and illuminating to help you
make better decisions moving forward, but that ultimately you know,
it's not there to support like everything happens for a
reason type rhetoric, because I don't know if I fully
believe that, but I do think it's important to recognize
that our lives are not necessarily stories with plot points,
(14:59):
and you know, so.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Characters whose traits track like I love that you're saying that,
I hate that phrase. Do it for the plot?
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, do it for the plot because hate that listen.
I naturally do things for the plot. I conceive of
my life as this hero's journey, and so when some
random tragedy comes along, I either ignore it or I
do this mental contortionism to like shoehorn it into the
plot so that it makes sense. But life is not
like that. Sometimes life is chaotic. Sometimes things happen for
(15:28):
no reason, and that's okay, and it doesn't make it
less valid. It doesn't make your life less interesting or
less important. And so I wrote this chapter to help
me process some of those experiences and hopefully in turn,
help others too.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
There's another chapter called the Shit Talking Hypothesis. I love
that chapter title. And in this chapter you introduce the
zero sum bias. What is it and how do we
overcome it?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Listen?
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Zero some bias is most often discussed in the context
of economics, but I thought it would be more full
and relatable to discuss it in the context of social comparison.
So it describes this very deep rooted instinct to think
that another person's gain directly means your loss. So when
we see another person who is successful, beautiful, wealthy, cool,
(16:16):
we think that is a direct threat to our wealth, success, beauty,
and coolness, even though that's not true. There is not
a limited quantity of light in the universe. Another person's
light doesn't directly dim yours. But this stems from such
a deep rooted inclination that goes back to a time
in human history when resources within a small community may
(16:38):
very well have been limited. You know, you were competing
with people who were in your age group for mates, food,
et cetera. Things really were zero sum. That's not the
case anymore, and yet we can't shake this ingrained fallacy.
Becoming aware of it has become really helpful to me,
especially as a woman. We're living in a society that
really does set up a zero sum game for women,
in particular where we're led to believe that there is
(17:01):
only a small, select few seats in the c suite
or on the Supreme Court for women, and thus there
is only a limited number of women who can be
perceived as successful and wealthy or whatever you value. And
there's this amazing quote that Anne Friedman and May Not
Too So said in a viral cut piece from twenty thirteen,
(17:24):
where they coin this phrase shine theory, which describes this
idea that two women can actually combine their light everybody
burns brighter. And I find that really inspiring, especially in
a culture where studies find that women are prone to
make more upward comparisons and downward identifications.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I wish I had interacted with you in my early
twenties when I was such a hustler and so insecure
and competitive because all this is just it's making so
much sense.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, you know, and as somebody who loves stats and research,
it's actually proven.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
You can touch it, feel it, listen. I find that
stats and impureracle studies are so validating, especially when they
support a frustration that I've always had but could never
put a number or a graph.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Two.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
The other interesting thing is that I find it really
ironic that the women who appear to threaten us the
worst are the ones we have most in common with, aka,
the ones we could become best friends with.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Hello.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, there's somebody I forgot who told me this years ago,
but they said, if somebody, especially another woman, triggers something
in you, you have to look inward. It's about you,
it's not about them, And it's such a good rule
of thumb.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
I actually feel like, if a woman is triggering you
and inspiring you to feel competitive and to allow them
to live rent free in your head instead of like
beating yourself up, befriend her.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Befriend her.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
See this aligns with a reframe that I have used
in the past, like, what if, ever I'm feeling like
threatened or jealous or competitive with someone, I just say
she inspires me, I turn it around into inspiration, like
I want to learn from her or I want to
It's a shine theory, you know, I want to absorb
that magnetism.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
There are so many great stories and observations in this book,
But if you had to leave our listeners with one
takeaway about how they can bring more joy into their lives,
let me repeat that more joy. I feel like that's
what we need right now.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
What would that be?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
One of my favorite solutions to magical overthinking has to
do with the concept of AWE. There's this amazing social
scientist named doctor Kelner who wrote a whole book about
AWE and I love this concept because it describes the
sort of humbling wonder that you experience when you're perceiving
a phenomenon that you can't quite understand. So if you're
in the midst of nature or stunning live music, or
(19:41):
engaging in a spiritual ritual, it's helpful because it takes
you outside of yourself. It removes some of that self
focus that can be so destructive existentially. And so I
find that whenever I'm spiraling overthinking, I try to get
outside of myself by immersing myself in an experience that
inspires all.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Amanda, thank you so much for sharing all of your
insights with us. After the break, Amanda's going to draw
on her background as a linguist and quiz us on
our knowledge of viral slaying in a jugee game that
we're calling Decoded.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And if you don't know what chugi means, you're about
to find out. And we're back with writer, linguist and
podcast host Amanda Montel and she's here to play a
round of Decoded, our rapid fire game of Internet speak.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Welcome back, Amanda, Thank you so much for having me. Okay,
bright side besties. Here's how the game works. Amanda has
a list of words that Simone and I have not seen.
These are terms that some of us and hopefully Simone
and I have come across on the Internet already, and
we have to guess exactly what they mean. Simone, Amanda,
(20:53):
I don't know if I'm ready for this.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Are we Let's go?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Let's I want to be embarrassed?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Let's okay?
Speaker 5 (20:58):
Yeah, you know, language is changing fast than ever. The
Internet obviously is responsible for that. So if you don't
know any of these terms, don't feel ashamed. Things are
moving quickly. I also want to make the disclaimer that
so much terminology that we perceive as Internet slang actually
does have its roots in marginalized communities, communities that have
always used language as a form of power in a
(21:20):
society that doesn't always give them the most accessible forms
of power. So I want to give credit where credit
is due. But the first term on this list, it's
a softball. What does chewgee mean?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I know this one.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Okay. It's first of all, I'm choogy, you're choogee. We're millennials.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
First of all, this game is cheogy, right, game is choogo?
This game is so choogy.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yes, uh, millennial.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
It's giving Lulu lemon, which I love.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
It's giving it's giving tryhard millennial.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
This is one of those terms where it's much easier
to say what it looks like than what it is.
So it did have this kind of flash in the
pan moment on TikTok in twenty twenty one, but it
didn't take off by any means. It did not become
viral until for some reason The New York Times lashed
onto it and covered it in a piece, and then
millennials started to kind of panic a little bit, actually
(22:11):
a lot of bit on mass because everybody was engaging
in this discourse of like, oh my god, am I
chugy am I chewgi.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
It wasn't this like the middle and side parts and
the straight skinny leg jeens.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Absolutely yes, it's being judged by the younger generation.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
That's what chew gin is.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
Exactly, which is a tale as old as time.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
You know.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
Really, it wasn't that gen Z was overly roasting us,
but we were starting to get the sense for the
first time that we were getting maybe a little older.
I mean, the youth has always driven linguistic change, and
it was a sign that we millennials were not the
drivers of slaying anymore, and that really disturbed us. So
it was really millennial's anxiety about the word shoogie that
(22:52):
caused it to blow up, not the word shogie itself.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
The flip side of chowgi is whenever you get a
compliment from a gaggle of gen z ers, just feels like,
oh my god.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Oh you have no idea. I went and spoke in
a high school the other week, and one of the
students told me, I ate.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
I was like no crumbs.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
You actually do you eat anything?
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Thank you so much. I was like, m ah um,
gonna google that.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
The next word on this list is one of my favorites.
The word is delulu.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Oh yeah, tots. It's short for delusional.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, but it has like a positive spin like be
delulu enough to believe all your dreams are gonna come true,
Be delulu enough that you can meet the person of
your dreams.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
Yes, no, it is giving manifestation. I love that it
is not only positive but cutesy, and we have the
suffix delulu to thank for that not only isn't an abbreviation,
but it incorporates kind of baby babbling, googo gaga delulu,
and I love all the sort of like rhyming spinoffs
that it's inspired, like de Lulu is the only solu
(24:02):
to make your dreams come true?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Lulu I really appreciated a podcast episode back. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
It also feels like it's in alignment with the ascendancy
of girlhood as an idea.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Like fully fully Yeah. It's like we're cutesifying concepts that
might not all on their own be cute, but they
are indeed coping mechanisms in our world right now, okay,
speaking of girlhood. Actually, the next term is coquette.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Isn't this an old term. This is a new term.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
This is an old term that has experienced new life.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I haven't heard this I except for in the old way.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Coquettish is a term that I feel like I can
grasp more easily, which to me evokes French lead of
a rom com.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Yeah, like a flirt, a flirt. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
So coquette is now a TikTok, aesthetic that has expanded
into fashion spaces, et cetera. TikTok is obviously a platform
where micro trends thrive and spread, like tomato girl summer
or coastal grandma or coquette. We don't have these for
men on TikTok. If we do, no one cares.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I think that's okay. I love that we have our
own things.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Well, femaleness is always under a microscope, for better and
for worse. But coquette is another one of these terms
that's easier to depict than define. So think an aesthetic
involving bows, ribbons, pastel, pinks, knee socks, Lana del Rey. Yeah,
people Okay, some people have a very pukey reaction to this.
(25:33):
To me, I'm sorry if anybody listening is coquettish.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Oh so, I love coquettish thing. It's kind of coy, girly,
extremely feminine.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Yes, it's hype of feminine, and I think it does
also reflect this discourse surrounding girlhood alongside the eras tour
and Barbie. You know this, there's a sort of elevating
of girlhood, which I love. Okay, And my very last
term for you is beije flag. Wait?
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Whoa beige flag? Okay?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Beige flag is in between a red flag and a
green flag.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
Yeah. Yeah, As you can probably tell, it refers to
one of these signals in a relationship, like a red flag,
which is a warning sign do not proceed. Green flag
is like, yeah, that's a good person, feel free to
date them. A beige flag is a sign that maybe
a person is not good, not bad, but perplexing in
an oddly mundane way.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
So a beige flag is goldilocks.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
Yeah maybe again, just right, it's hard to get well
or maybe just wrong. I will quote an article by
Mia Mercato from The Cut. Mia says it could be
the particular way they do their laundry, or their deep
fear of astronauts. This tidbit of information is neither a
deal breaker nor a deal maker, neither alarming nor alluring.
(26:47):
It simply is, hmm, beige flag.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
So one time I did an exercise with an executive
coach and she was like, one through ten, number these
things in your life, and it's relationships, home, spirituality, community, service,
et cetera. But you cannot use a seven because everybody
uses that in between number. You got to give something, commit, commit,
and I feel like a beige flag is just so noncommittal.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
No, No, life is all about the in between. It's
all about the gray area nuance.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yes, agreed, but I beige does not signify nuance.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
To me, it signifies mundane.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
It's oddly hard to define because I've seen some beige
flags symbolize boring, and I've seen some beige flags resemble
like unidentifiably quirky. But we like quirky here, Yeah, yeah,
I do. I do agree, though we like to live
in the nuances in the beij.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Is it chooge to say that we kind of killed
this game, we ate we hate Is it chug to
say that we ate at this game.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
I mean, god, you know they do say as soon
as the Olds embrace the term, it's.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
It's done, it's dead.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I know. Sadly, Amanda, thank you so much. This has
been so fun and also so illuminating a.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Blast for me.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes. Amanda Montelle is a writer, linguist, and host of
the podcast Sounds Like a Cult. She's also the author
of words Lud, a feminist guide to taking back the
English Language, and Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism. Her new book,
The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on modern irrationality, is
out April ninth.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Oh that was so fun.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I definitely learned a thing or two about why we
do the things that we do.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yes, and when she talks about shine theory, I mean
that just aligns with our show and our mission so much.
We're really here to lift each other up and inspire
one another always.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And I think the one parting affirmation we want to
leave you with today is actually something Amanda said, and
that is two women fusing their light makes us all shine.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Writer, hmmm, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
When we shine a light on other people's stories and
gifts is such a gift for us too.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
We want to hear from you. Do you have a
shine theory story.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Maybe it's a moment when you befriended someone who initially
intimidated you and now you're besties, or when someone at
work stepped up and really had your back. Send us
a note or a voice memo at Hello at the
bright sidepodcast dot com.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
We really love a voice note here. We listen to
them all.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Tomorrow we're talking to singer songwriter Raina Roberts about Beyonce's
new album, Cowboy Carter, which she's featured in, and the
album's impact on country music and beyond. All right, that's
it for today's show. We'll be back tomorrow with your
daily dose of sunshine. So listen and subscribe on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
(29:42):
You can find me Simone Voice at Simone Voice.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
And I'm Danielle Robe at Danielle robe ro Bay.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Keep looking on the bright side.
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